I'm in class again... so here it goes

[Xratter]

First. Demomen and soldiers I think are the two most well rounded classes in the game, but I feel the demoman has more utility. But that doesn't change the fact, that soldiers are still better in some cases.

Second. Stickie jumping... some people think it's a must, cause I see them do it almost every time they have a life. why? You lose most/a large chunk of your health. Why not just try and play your class w/o the jump? Now, admittedly, stickie jumping is useful... sometimes, but i see way too many demos use it way too often. If i do it, i ALWAYS try to get a medic give me a health boost before I do, so I keep damage to a minimum, and I always use it sparingly because if you keep doing it, the other team will know you'll be there (like the door in toyfort). You lose what, 75 health from a stickie? Soliders lose 50ish from a rocket, and have more health than you...

Third. 2 stickies are enough to kill at full health if placed right: medics, scouts, snipers, spies and if you're really lucky pyros/demos. 2 stickies takes a total of 2 seconds to lay and arm. 3 kills: soldiers, pyros, demos. 4 kills: heavies. Now obviously, you gotta be aware of overheals.

Fourth. If the team is capturing a point, use your stickie gun, blow them up almost right when they get over the point. They scatter, or they die. It works really well. Sometimes, it's better to lay down the # you want, and then blow, but that's usually pretty rare, you can throw'n'blow enough stickies one after the other, to usually do the job. I get lots of kills/points doing this.

Fifth. If you're being chased, as soon as you turn the corner, put a stickie on that corner (sometimes you have time to throw 2).

Sixth. I'm using 2fort as an example. When in 2fort, there's the area right outside the main spawn on the second floor. If you're up in that room, HEADING OUT of the room, whether that's to the battlements, or to the spiral down to the intel, throw a couple stickies at the spawn door. Now I am not advocating spawn camping. This is a great method to protect yourself, if someone runs out of the spawn as your trying to leave the room.

Seventh. You can shoot stickies around any corner, close enough to a sentry gun, to blow it up. you just have to know where the sentry is, and edge your way close enough. You are the best class at destroying sentries. Now agruably, some classes are better sometimes, but most of the time, demos are the best choice. 2 stickies kills: level 1 & 2 senties, dispensers, teleporters. 3 stickies kills: level 3 sentries.

Eighth. Charging up stickies is a great ability... but it takes a long time to charge it. 5... ish seconds charging to full, is a long time 'in-game'. It's generally best to get in a location where you don't have to charge it up. I'm not saying don't use it, just use it sparingly, like stickie jumping.

Ninth. Grenades annoy me, I'll be honest. I can't completely figure them out or use them properly. But they are fantastic at destroying sentries. You can shoot them faster than a rocket, and they shoot farther than a non charged stickie. If time's short, try using the grenades. The only other time I use stickies regularly is when someone is charging me because when they hit, they hit hard.

Tenth. Grenade lobbing/spamming is... marginally useful. Generally, you're just damaging people, but not killing anyone, or pressing the push forward. If you're spamming grenades, then you probably could be doing something more useful.

Eleventh. Stickies are more useful. It's like a laser guided bomb compared to a unguided bomb. Now, if you're good enough to accurately place grenades, through the air/on the ground, then definitely use it when you feel they're better, but most of us are not that proficient at it. Placing stickies allows you to hit harder than 4 rockets at once... that's just a more useful ability.

Twelfth. If I'm defending my intel, I will not move and place 4-7 stickies under the intel. This places stickies in one location, so it either looks like 1 stickie (personally, if i get a crit during this, i start over, cause it gives away that anything's there) or they can't even tell they're there. Generally, it's really hard to notice stickies are even on the intel, if it's laying on the ground. Once I see someone picks up the intel, I blow them. I've killed lots of people doing this. But you have to pay attention to the arrows/! to tell when someone picks up the intel.

Thirteenth. You are an ambush class, just like the pyro, you're just suppose to be more sudden. Place your stickies in places people can't see, or don't expect.

Fourteenth. You can blow apart an uber. Place 2-3 stickies in the path of an uber, and they'll either fly high, or blow apart. If you can't blow apart an uber (you placed the stickies too far apart, or they're in a tightly confined location) place stickies under them for after the uber ends.



That's all I've got for now, and class is over.

[captainAngry]

You lose what, 75 health from a stickie? Soliders lose 50ish from a rocket, and have more health than you...

Soldiers lose at least 75 health per rocket. I won't RJ with less than 100 health because you risk killing yourself with 90 health. Trust me on that one.

Seventh. You can shoot stickies around any corner, close enough to a sentry gun, to blow it up. you just have to know where the sentry is, and edge your way close enough. You are the best class at destroying sentries.

One reason for this is that SGs will block rocket splash damage but not any demo splash damage.

My problem with demo is that I tend to get into close combat situations. I have a hard time keeping back or staying out of the middle of the battle. Does anyone have any advice for close combat related specifically to demo?

[RandomGuy]

I find the best way to kill pryos in flamer range is to hit them with the bottle. They will never expect it, their thinking they will get a free kill.

[steiner949]

Sometimes when I get stuck in cqc, I tend to just try a stickie jump to get away. Depending on the situation, it will either kill me, kill them, or both. Either way it is one method of escape that has a 66.6667% chance of being a win-win.

[captainAngry]

I randomly run at pyros all the time as all sorts of classes and you definately die more often then you kill the pyro. You can dodge the flames if you are good but it's really hard to do if you are running at the pyro from any kind of distance.

[Xratter]

Soldiers lose at least 75 health per rocket. I won't RJ with less than 100 health because you risk killing yourself with 90 health. Trust me on that one.

One reason for this is that SGs will block rocket splash damage but not any demo splash damage.

My problem with demo is that I tend to get into close combat situations. I have a hard time keeping back or staying out of the middle of the battle. Does anyone have any advice for close combat related specifically to demo?

Ok, so about your first point: I was kind of hesitant at first, about losing 75 health as a soldier because I don't remember that, so I did some testing, to make sure i remembered correctly. I did 3 runs of rocket jumping.

Test Run 1, 4 rockets:
1st rocket) 155 health left
2nd rocket) 110 health left
3rd rocket) 66 health left
4th rocket) 28 health left

Test Run 2, 4 rockets:
1st rocket) 157 health left
2nd rocket) 116 health left
3rd rocket) 74 health left
4th rocket) 31 health left

Test Run 3, 4 rockets:
1st rocket) 157 health left
2nd rocket) 115 health left
3rd rocket) 73 health left
4th rocket) 33 health left

So this got me wondering what you were talking about at 75 health per rocket, and then i realized, you might not be jump/crouching as you rocket jump, like I was doing. So here's the test runs w/out jump/crouching:

Test Run 4, 2 rockets:
1st rocket) 115 health left
2nd rocket) 29 health left

Test Run 5, 2 rockets:
1st rocket) 114 health left
2nd rocket) 28 health left

I think that's where you're getting the 75 health/rocket jump. Try jumping and crouching as you rocket jump next time, that should lower how much health you lose.


On to your second point. If you're in close quarters as a demo, you can do a few things.

A) pull out your bottle, simple
B) shoot stickies on the ground as you run backwards, trying to kill the person... this works 50-75% of the time for me
C) pull out your grenade launcher and start lobbing grenades at them... this can be a good option, if you're good at estimating how the grenades will fly, if not, I'd advice either A, B or D, or E
D) if you're use to people messing you up while destroying a sentry, you can pre-set stickies... for instance, if an engineer always comes out and shoots at you while you're setting stickies, then set some where you comes out at you first, and then shoot them at the sentry. this way, he'll either be killed when he comes running at you, or he'll be deterred from running to you. if others come up behind you and always mess you up, you can set stickies in a place they'd have to cross to get to you. with those, you'd just have to watch your back for them to be effective. sometimes thinking ahead as a demo is what it takes to stay safe. for instance, if you think you're going to flee through a particular doorway, and people will pursue you, then set some stickies there before you even enter the doorway, and use your grenade launcher to coax them out.
E) you can try running around corners and setting stickies on the wall, blowing them up when the pursuer comes around it.


Hope that helps... that's what i do when i get in cqc.... or there's always fleeing. I've never tried steiner's method though, so i don't know how well that would work... i guess if you're fast enough, before you get hurt a lot, you'd survive.

[captainAngry]

Nice run on the numbers. I have definately killed myself at about 90 health so that's where it came from. I wasn't really rocket jumping though, I was trying to hurt myself to speed up the uber charge build of my medic. What probably happened is since I was shooting multiple rockets at my feet and they broke the croutch I did a jump without a croutch or just shot the ground right beneith me.

I didn't realize it is different when you RJ.

Also people tell me all the time that hurting yourself doesn't help your uber charge faster. This is definately not true and I will prove it in game to anyone who asks.

[Xratter]

in-game, it speeds up the uber, but during setup it doesn't... they're probably getting the two mixed up, so yes, you're right.

[RandomGuy]

They changed it so that during startup, your uber charges at maximum rate, after that, injuring yourself will charge uber quicker.

[Original]

One thing I like in close combat is to run around in a pattern that is hard for another player to guess. Be unpredictable if possible.

All the while planting stickies. If you have enough health you can take sticky damage and obliterate your opponent. But the trick is to plant stickies back and forth in the fight area. Plant one left, one far right, one middle, wait... wait for it, plant another. Eventually a scout will most likely strafe to one side or another . Kablammo! He's watching the sticky on the right and left but didn't see the one in the middle.

I suck a melee though so I usually try and get stickies down. Doesn't always work.

Same when attacking, I plant stickies on walls, corners, etc... as I go. and on payload I throw some ahead and behind cart and keep refreshing them as the cart moves. Helps create a buffer zone. Even if a pyro gets to the cart he's almost dead and not too much of a threat by then.

I try to spam grenades in between stickies too. Throw a few stickies, people will watch them, throw a few grenades (you might get lucky), then switch back to stickes.
If you didn't hit with the grenades they'll be laying around the enemies feet blowing up while they are trying to avoid stickies.

But my fav is sneaking up on a zoomed sniper and seeing how many stickies I can plant before he notices or moves. Always best if you can get 8 stickies down before you blow them.

[captainAngry]

But my fav is sneaking up on a zoomed sniper and seeing how many stickies I can plant before he notices or moves. Always best if you can get 8 stickies down before you blow them.

Blow them!?! I hardly know them.

[Original]

Ouch, I can't believe you went there.