Admin Menu Redux

[captainAngry]

Alright, I have this idea and I want to get peoples feedback on it. People complain that some people shouldn't have admin or some people abuse their admin and I have been struggling to find a solution that works for everyone. I really don't want to police admins so my stance has always been if something is a problem, no one gets it. The only reason we need so many admins is so that there is always someone around to kick, ban, mute people whenever it is necessary but with the fun server we started running into trouble.

We have plenty of admins but right now, everyone that joins cC is an admin so they can have powers on the fun server. People just want the ability to use tele or whatever on the fun server or fuck with people. I was looking around sourcemod plugins and I found one that i think could solve the problem: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=864129.

What it does is give candy for defined actions in game. You earn candy by killing people, getting assists and by just being on the server. You lose candy when you get killed or suicide. The amount of candy that is earned/lost can be defined so we can work out something that makes sense. You can then spend that candy on whatever is defined in a cfg file defined on each server. On the regular server maybe you could spend 30 candy to get 100% crits for 10 seconds, 50 candy to slay a player, 50 candy to get 200% uber for 120 seconds etc. (or nothing on the regular server if we really wanted). On the fun server we could add stuff in like tele and that kind of thing.

For example, if I played on the server for a couple hours, I could potentially have about 100 candy (or something like that). I could then jump on the fun server and spend those candy to use tele a few times and then my candy would be depleted and I would have to play for a while before to do it again.

The benefit of this is that I could pair down the admins a lot (at the very least, reduce their powers significantly). This would keep anyone from spamming the servers with nonsense admin shit and give people that play on the server the credit the deserve.

Going forward from that I could allow people to buy candy when they donate so if someone really wants to be able to tele people all the time, they will at least have to give us money to help the community grow.

If we are going to grow, we need more members of calculatedChaos. Right now the only way to do that is to give people admin. We really don't need more admins (and could do with a lot less IMO). With something like this in place we could potentially make calculatedChaos a public group where anyone could wear the tag and feel like they were a part of the group.

I want to know what you guys think about this. I know it is a long wall of text but I tried to break it up the best I could. I would guess that I wouldn't be able to implement any of this stuff until next weekend at the earliest since I am swamped at work so you guys have until at least then to give feedback.

-Captain

[Divine Fate]

While I don't like the idea of adding game-effecting commands in on the regular server, it sounds like it would be a great addition to the fun server. Plus nobody will feel left out when they can't teleport around, and it will make the abuse go down much less when people realize that they only have a limited number of tries. Gives people a sense of earning what they do, I like it.

[captainAngry]

Yeah, I would really have to think about what, if anything, you could earn on the regular server. I am leaning towards either nothing or a few things (slay or something) that are very expensive.

[D34THSPAWN]

i do like the idea of the crits and stuff...kind of like the "good" effects of RTD and make them rather expensive on the regular server...

[Original]

It seems like most of the admin problems have been on the fun server.
In which case something like this might be better than admin for most of those players. Everyone, even non admins, could tele or slay, whatever so it wouldn't feel like you are just being picked on.
Probably admin needs to be limited to people who don't abuse bans, kicks...
That stuff just tends to piss people off and make them think we're all a bunch of douche bags imo.
Now I can see if someone is being abusive to regs, they should be kicked... But maybe current admins don't really get the difference between abuse and when they should actually enforce stuff.
I don't visit the fun server much so I don't know...

On the customs server which I am on quite a bit I really don't notice the abuse. Sure once in awhile some dick joins and gets kicked. Seems like they have to be a real dick to get kicked more than once or banned.
Mute gets used alot but I think we all get that for the most part we're just goofing around and people don't get pissed.
Members get kicked a bit too but almost always rejoin and don't get pissed. Same as mute, we're just goofin and having a good time for the most part.
But I don't think we need stuff on that server like the candy mod. It tends to be the players who want a 'serious' game of tf2 and those mods are fun server things.

On the 3rd server though it might be cool to have regular maps with a twist. Maybe only a few days a week, or weekends, maybe all the time. Might help populate that server. Alot of people like rtd but it's hard to find. The candy thing does sound cool but not all the time (like on the main server).
Could be a cool way to bring players over to the limited custom rotation so they'd try some custom maps AND have some fun doing it.

[captainAngry]

Like I said, the candy doesn't actually have to do anything on the regular customs server. You would earn it on all the servers and use it on the funServer.

At the most there would be maybe handful of things on the regular customs server but I am leaning more and more towards not being able to buy anything on the regular customs server.

[PhrozenFlame]

But with this, you could go to the idle server and stand on the ledge by the window and earn like 500,000,000 candies over the course of a couple days where you'll be on vacation or not have time to play. Then, you'll be able to slay people on the custom server or funserver whenever you want.

I don't necessarily like this idea. Just give the lowest admins the necessary things such as kick and ban for the custom server and limit the amounts of time they can tele for the fun and idle server. (but only for as long as it's an idle server.)

[GrimGriz]

I'd go with only being able to buy stuff on the fun server, but you know I like my TF2 straight.

[captainAngry]

But with this, you could go to the idle server and stand on the ledge by the window and earn like 500,000,000 candies over the course of a couple days where you'll be on vacation or not have time to play. Then, you'll be able to slay people on the custom server or funserver whenever you want.

I don't necessarily like this idea. Just give the lowest admins the necessary things such as kick and ban for the custom server and limit the amounts of time they can tele for the fun and idle server. (but only for as long as it's an idle server.)

If the idle server was running you wouldn't earn candy on that server. Otherwise anyone who idles normally and just dies over and over again would have a ton of negative candy and people like AUS who no clips and then builds SGs on the enemy side would get a shit ton of candy.

As far as I know you cannot limit the number of times any one person can execute a command.

[Ex-PFC Wintergreen]

Fine, but the kiddies aren't gonna like it when I tell them that they cant have low grav any more.

[Fireproof]

Although this is a cool idea, I think the admins should keep their access to all of their commands. Personally if I decide to tele, I end up tellying at least 30 times a minute.

Thats a lot of candy.

It would be a fun way of letting lower admins have access to a limited amount of high admin commands, and normal players would have a limted way to strike back at the admins who have a god complex.

From the looks of that thread it seems they are still working on the candy mod, so maybe we should wait...

One question though, can you earn candy in the main server to use in the funserver?

PS Dont take my telly away, it's all I have...

[AgeNt_]

tbh, the candies thing might be fun, however there will always be the guy who plays and gets the most and then abuses it. so, on the custom server we should have admin officers that have the right only to ban and kick and do other admin deeds, where as they cant teleport and such abusing the admin powers. Where as the newer members only have the power to vote kick and vote ban people and vote mute and all the other votes because then its like asking permission to abuse where alot of people wont allow it

[Divine Fate]

tbh, the candies thing might be fun, however there will always be the guy who plays and gets the most and then abuses it. so, on the custom server we should have admin officers that have the right only to ban and kick and do other admin deeds, where as they cant teleport and such abusing the admin powers. Where as the newer members only have the power to vote kick and vote ban people and vote mute and all the other votes because then its like asking permission to abuse where alot of people wont allow it

And the guy that plays the most and abuses it CAN have his candy taken away or he could be banned, you never know.

[pleasenopouncing]

if possibly instead of just slay make it vote slay cause u could be walking around on arena breakfloor and then die for no real rson so vote ban will make this a little better.

[[DAWN]HellFire]

Trust me, this idea is not good in any sense.

[captainAngry]

One question though, can you earn candy in the main server to use in the funserver?

yes

[VillageSavant]

Would it be possible to give the highest admins such as Devine and the others infinite candy so they can kick idiots as needed? I'd hate to be playing with some jerk simply cause none of us played the last fews days and lost all of our candy cause of it.

[Divine Fate]

It won't replace basic admin, just some of the "fun" commands.

[Brain Dead Hero]

What if this was implimented, and the Admins got to keep every thing except for the level 1 Admins? The level one Admins could keep every thing excudeing tele, it seems to be the only bad thing any one complains about. New bad admins abuseing teleport... ( *cough* Hellfire *cough* )

[Greesed-UpDeaf-Guy]

This is rudedog on my bro's account.

This doesnt sound like a bad idea at all. Will this affect rcon users?

[???]

hmm...these are my suggestions:

i dont like the idea of credits being on the existing servers. I believe that the concept of credits cheapens the game of TF2, making those who play more more powerful.


i say that if anyone is simply being a real jerk with their admin powers, abusing them, warn them, and if that doesnt work, remove the problem from them, which is their admin powers. perhaps a suspension of the powers, and then permanent removal if the problem persists after the suspension

even on the fun server teleports can be abused, when a person teleports everywhere, in sniper nests for example, across the map

anyway, these are my opinions...but in the end, any solution will probably require some amount of work, unfortunatly

[Ex-PFC Wintergreen]

Here is a solution. Don't give every tom dick and harry admin powers. I know your well meaning and admin powers help you to have fun on the fun server but quite frankly I preferred the days when people had to earn it because they understood the trust that they had to gain to get the powers. Also, it does not help that they have role models like gypsy who wastes no time making everybody on the fun server rage quit. Maybe the lowest level of admin does not have teleport. That way they can still be admins but they still have to earn the "fun" powers. You shouldn't punish everybody because it turned out that Banzai box was an absolute tool.

[Joe's Crab Shack]

Sounds like something tailor made for the fun server only.

[pleasenopouncing]

here is a admin rank/level list whatever u want to call it, and what their powers r (plz note this is what we could do not what it is (i think)):

lvl 3 admins: they have everything even rcon
lvl 2 admins: they have kick, ban, slap,mute ,explode, tele, vote starting, and maybe a few other i am forgeting
lvl 1 admins: they have kick, ban, and mute

the higher admins could have a time where we talk to each other and see if some1 should be promoted or demoted depending on his/her conduct and control of powers.

again note this is not what it is just my suggestion

[PhrozenFlame]

Here's how people could get promoted.

The 2/3'rds vote
Basiclly, you have to appeal for a promotion with cap, he has to agree to it, and then you could post a topic on the forums and then to get the promoting you have to have a majority of the forum members who took a part in the vote agree that you should get a promotion for your admin powers. You can only request a promotion once per month.

[captainAngry]

Voting never works. No one ever votes and most people don't read the forum very often.

Trust me, I have run quite a few groups like this. The only thing we could do that would work is to allow a few other people to invite people into the group so that it wasn't just me. When I have stretches like now where I am working 10-12 hour days it's tough for me to get to know everyone and choose new members.

I have lots of ideas of how to fix membership if this doesn't work, I just need time to implement them. I am planning on setting some time aside next weekend to work on personal projects.

[pleasenopouncing]

i could help with the inviting of peeps into Cc whenever u are not around capt.

[Beetle]

I was on the server for the first time, played a couple of rounds, and that is just not my idea of fun. Its not to say I won't play on that server anymore, but the teleport is crazy. For one, people spam the damn thing, but for two it made a good handful of people rage quit that weren't (i dont think) regulars cuz they saw admins zipping back and forth getting to places that are unreachable and killing everyone, and lightning-quick flag caps. If that's what keeps bringing people back, that's fine, I guess that is why we have the regular server. (But I consider the regular server the fun server )

[Ex-PFC Wintergreen]

beetle, i don't know who was on but its not usually like that. If I am on I make sure people are not just changing maps and tele spamming. You must have come on a bad day. It's a good server if you don't mind jump maps.

[Surnem]

I like the idea of candy, and earning on the main the main server, and being able to spend it on the fun server. It'd attract people to the mainserver. Especially if you were ONLY able to earn it on the main server, and spend on the fun server. That way on maps where people all help each other out to do something awesome (such as spelling "win!" with engi buildings) there'd be less people who just slaughter everyone for more candy.

Also, with the idea of making cC a public group, with members and admins, rather than being the same thing, I suggest giving an addition to the tag for admins (such as cCA for Calculated Chaos Admin, or cC:Admin) to differentiate between the two.